Magnum One/Magnum One (Mid-American Digital) (Disc Manufacturing).iso/d21/dv_help.arc/DVRAM.THD

Text File | 1988-03-26 | 33.4 KB | 768 lines

@*
Discussion raged for more than two months about the optimal allocation of
system RAM and various varieties of expanded and extended memory when using the
multi-tasking DesqView system.  To provide the largest possible windows for
concurrent applications, it is necessary to provide as much system memory as
possible from the RAMpage card itself; in most instances, this means disabling
expansion memory on multi-function cards such as the AST Six-Pak, but for some
hardware configurations, removal of motherboard chips may be necessary or
desirable.


@*
Fm: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

Please note that once you get the RAMpage card, you will not be needing any
other memory.  This includes motherboard memory!  The RAMpage can provide all
of your memory, and in order to get the best use out of it you should configure
your system so that it does so.  Therefore you should try and avoid other
boards with memory on them.  You may want to check on the availability of the
add-on pack for RAMpage which supplies serial, clock etc.


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: All

In order to use the full power of DesqView with the RAMpage, your system memory
must be 128K or 256K. If you have 640K, you must be able to remove or disable
your memory to the lower limits. The penalty for keeping 640K is the number of
large programs that can be run concurrently (one). The difference between 640K
and 256K is running "a 545K program (or any combination of programs that
collectively take up 545K or less) and up to eight 86K programs concurrently."
or the same 545K program and "up to eight 470K programs concurrently."

The manual is very specific in how to disable or remove memory if you have an
IBM PC, XT or AT. However, if you are not hardware knowledgeable and own a
Compaq 286 Deskpro or Compaq 286 portable, you are in deep ****.

I called Quarterdeck and explained my problem and was told that one of their
tech support persons who was experienced with the 286 DeskPro (they have the
machine) would call me and advise me what to do. That was at 9:00 AM yesterday.
Did you hear from them?  So here I sit with the capability (if I had the
program disk) of running one 545K program and eight 86K programs concurrently.
I can't even think of one 86K program.

So does anybody out there have any suggestions on how to disable the memory in
the 286 DeskPro or portable?.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340

Could you possibly re-phrase what you said about the penalties of running 640K
v 256K???...


@*
Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010

OK, here is the direct quote from the DesqView manual.

if "your system is fully loaded with 640K of memory, you get the ability to run
a 545K progarm (or any combination of programs that collectively take up 545K
or less) and up to eight 86K programs concurrently.

If you reduce the amount of memory on your system to 256K (or if it is already
256K), you get the ability to run one 545K program and up to eight 470K
programs concurrently.

If you reduce the amount of memory on your system to 128K (or if it is already
128K), you get the ability to run as many as nine 545K programs concurrently."

Late today, I talked to Gary Saxer of Quaterdeck and he informed me that the
Compaq 286 DeskPro needed a new memory card, which will be supplied by Compaq.
It must be obtained thru your Compaq dealer. I got the impression that these
cards are available now. I was not able to confirm this because it was after
hours. He did not have any information about the 286 portable. The most
encouraging info was that a Compaq 286 Deskpro with the new memory card and the
RAMpage-AT was used at Comdex to demo the program. I guess that means it works.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340 (X)

Okay, then you almost have to run at 256K, cuz the 86K programs just won't make
it for the most part...  I wonder what the peculiarity is???...


Fm: Paul Ferrara 70075,252
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

The "must" may only be true on the '286 machines.  The techie I spoke to at AST
said it was advisable because of speed to use the RAMpage memory for the system
memory but didn't say it caused that problem.

Btw, how does one disable the memory on a 6-pack + ?  I tried without success.
Do I have to physically remove the chips?


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Paul Ferrara 70075,252 (X)

The "must" applies no matter what machine. The DesqView manual gives specific
instructions for a PC-1, PC-2, and XT. If you can't disable the memory on an
add-on board, you must remove it!!!

I don't really understand it, and maybe some one knowledgeable about hardware
can explain it, but I was told that it was a hardware limitation; that the
Enhanced-EMS had to be able to access certain memory addresses. Please don't
jump all over me if this doesn't make sense.


Fm: Richard P. Wilkes 72746,1712
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

There is a problem with dropping your RAM back to 256K (or 128K).  If you
decide that you do not want to run under Desqview all the time, you will be
left with 256K system?  Or, will the extra memory on the card fill-out the
system to 640K in that case?


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Richard P. Wilkes 72746,1712

I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to run under DesqView, but I'll reserve that
decision until I'm actually using it. To go back to 640K you could use the
RAMpage card to round out memory to 640K.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340

Just for a clarification here, I understand that DesqView requires say 256K
only, but the system still gets the full 640K from the RAMpage, right???  This
is what I thought, but then I saw your message to Richard, and there seemed to
be some doubt...  Are you physically setting the PC's switches to 256K???  (I
hope not!)...


@*
Fm: Steve Kalman 75136,360
To: Paul Ferrara 70075,252 (X)

OK, folks, I have the rampage card and a beta copy of DV1.1 running on an XT.
Let me tell you all how it's set up.

1) The XT has a six-pak, with 384K and the prots, clock, etc. When I added the
Rampage board, I just plugged it in and the result was a 640K machine, with a 2
MEG ramdisk (less 32K for a spooler).

2) When I got the DV software, I had to disable the memory on the six pak (all
switches OFF) leaving the system switches on the XT mother board at 256K (where
they have been since day 1). I also had to change the switch block on the
rampage board to tell it that my XT memory ended at 256K (default was that the
XT ended at 640K) switch settings are in Appendix A, page A-5 of the rampage
manual, , but they are:
SW2-1 OFF   SW2-2 OFF  SW2-3 ON  SW2-4 OFF

Then, when you reboot your system, the POST will count up to 640, then the AST
memory manager will check out the rest of the rampage.

Your CONFIG.SYS needs only the device driver REMM.SYS. You can use the fastdisk
driver from AST, but it will take away from avail memory. Be sure to specify
that you want it to run in extended memory (/e option), or it will start in low
memory and really screw things up.
Same for the superspl, use the /e option.
This will result in DV being able to operate as tho it had a 2.2 MEG machine to
use. I understand that it puts a part of each program in low memory, and runs
the rest above.

There is a program called Memory Status that you can install from the Add
Programs, Other DV menu. It gives accurate CHKDSK-type memory available stats.


Fm: Nick Cvetkovic 76010,3420
To: Joan Friedman 76556,3643

DV needs all of the memory above 256k and below 640 to be under its control
because it is, sort of, acting as a virtual memory manager.  If it didn't have
the ability to fool DOS into thinking that certain addresses are in the lower
640 and switching that around...it couldn't have multiple programs running,
unless it MOVED the memory around...a tedious process at best.


Fm: John Liebson 76011,1445
To: Nick Cvetkovic 76010,3420

Quoting from page 2-4, Rampage User's Manual, October, 1985: "Although the
default RAMpage! starting address is 640KB, when you use Enhanced EMS software,
such as DESQview, DESQview performance is enhanced as more RAMpage! memory is
addressed between 0-640KB.  Refer to your DESQview manual for suggestion on
optimal memory allocation."


@*
Fm: Bela Lubkin/Amiga Forum 76703,3015
To: All

  There's been a lot of confusion lately about DesqView and its RAM
requirements.  Let me try to explain...
  DesqView is a multitasking system (of course).  One of the most critical
factors in the performance of a multitasking system is the 'context switch'
time, that is, the amount of time needed to change the system's context from
one program to the next.  Because of the design of PC-DOS, DesqView takes the
approach of swapping out entire programs (moving them out of memory) and moving
the next one in.
  The standard Lotus-Intel-MicroSoft (LIM) Expanded Memory Specification (EMS)
only provides for a single 64K 'window' into up to 8MB of expanded RAM
(actually 4 16K areas in one 64K contiguous area of the 80x8x address space).
DesqView 1.2 apparently supports this, presumably by doing lots of bank
switching and memory moves to accomplish each context switch.  All this
switching and moving takes a long time (remember, it's being done >many< times
per second).
  The AST Enhanced EMS alleviates this situation.  It not only provides the
standard 64K window, but it can also take responsibility for part of the lower
640K of memory.  The less 'normal' memory you have, the more switchable memory
you will have.  If you have a 256K motherboard and a 2MB RAMPage!, the RAMPage!
will fill the lower 640K out.  This is done in hardware and is independent of
drivers or DesqView -- you will have 640K even if you just boot vanilla PC-DOS.
However, under the control of the AST EMS drivers, DesqView can swap huge
swaths of the lower 640K >without< having to do all those costly memory moves.
This improves performance.  In fact, from what I've heard, DesqView 1.1 does
not even try to do the memory moves; this is what limits it to 86K tasks if you
have too much 'normal' RAM.  It only has a small window of swappable memory.
(This last is based on guesswork -- actually, it's all guesswork but what the
heck!)


Fm: Joan Friedman 76556,3643
To: Bela Lubkin/Amiga Forum 76703,3015 (X)

Just one point of practical clarification: provided one has a PC with 256K on
the system board, memory on any other expansion card disabled, and a
fully-loaded RAMpage: for how much memory does one set the system switches?
And, am I right in assuming that 640K will be available to the system when
booting without DV?  Many thanks for providing a useful exposition.


Fm: Bela Lubkin/Amiga Forum 76703,3015
To: Joan Friedman 76556,3643

  Set the switches the same as you would set them if you had 256K on the
motherboard and a 384K card such as a 6-pak.  (So set them for either 256K or
640K, depending on the whims of the particular manufacturer of the machine).
You will have 640K whether or not you use DesqView (or even the RAMpage!
drivers, for that matter).


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: Bela Lubkin/Amiga Forum 76703,3015 (X)

Definitely helps!!!...  The trick then is to figure out what you need in terms
of giving up RAMpage RAM to fill out the lower 640K versus performance
overall...  Sounds like a real juggle...

P.S. or a second RAMpage board...<grin>..


Fm: Chuck Forsberg Omen Tech 70715,131
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010

Unplugging the chips won't make the memory go away.  It will just change it to
write only.  You have to change the switches or straps that determine the
addressing.


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010

On the PC-XT you set the switches to indicate 256K, and the Rampage rounds out
to 640K.  On the PC, the switches are set to indicate 640K but any memory in
excess of 256K should be supplied by the Rampage.


Fm: John Liebson 76011,1445
To: Joan Friedman 76556,3643

My system board has only 64K.  I have removed my Mega-Plus card, and replaced
it with the RAMpage.  I now have 640K.  I do not yet have DesqView.  As to
switch settings, I have my system switches set for 64K, bootcfg. set for
640K--keeps POST short, but there is about a one-minute Rampage test.


Fm: Steve Kalman 75136,360
To: Joan Friedman 76556,3643

The cold start procedure reads 256K from the XT motherboard, then looks for
more memory via slots.  Formerly, my machine found it on the six-pak, now it
finds it on the rampage.  I do not have to run DV if choose not to.  WHen I run
it, I get access to a 1600K machine, BUT NO SINGLE PROG IS > 384K.

That means that I can run dbase, but no longer have kedit as my editor from
within dbase (but I can have a kedit window open, and switch at will)

BTW It also renders my 384K on the 6-pak useless (obsolete).


Fm: Dave Hoagland 72365,42
To: Steve Kalman 75136,360

The way I have my system set up, it still fills out the base 640K from the Gold
Card (Six-Pak functions), and uses the RAMpage *entirely* for extended and
expanded memory.  I understand it's supposed to be a little faster if you fill
out base from the RAMpage, but I'd sure like to see the numbers before I give
up 384K of RAM...


Fm: Steve Kalman 75136,360
To: Dave Hoagland 72365,42 (X)

That will work if all that you want is 2Meg of RAM/Spooler.  DesqView won't be
able to "see" the memory above 640K, and will swap active windows (You can set
it up to swap to ram disk, which is reasonably fast, tho).

In my opinion, it's not so much a matter of giving up 640, but getting an extra
1.6MEG.


Fm: John Liebson 76011,1445
To: Bela Lubkin/Amiga Forum 76703,3015 (X)

It seems that way to me too, but there is also this info. in the RAMPage!
manual, on page 2-6: "The PC-XT system board does not have to be fully
populated to use extended or expanded memory."  Perhaps XT-folks should
*remove* chips from their motherboards?


Fm: Bela Lubkin/Amiga Forum 76703,3015
To: John Liebson 76011,1445

It occurs to me that PC-1 (64K motherboard) owners have the best
possible systems for DesqView use!  You've got a bankable area of 576K, whereas
256K motherboards only allow 384K of banking (plus whatever area can be banked
above 640K).  I'll be putting up a message to All later tonight, trying to
clear up this welter of misinformation I've seen in the last couple of days.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: John Liebson 76011,1445 (X)

I've thought of that too... but does one really need 9 full 545K
partitions???...  I'm even curious what I can get with 384K or 512K...  The
only hangup at 640K is the 82K partitions, which just won't make it...


Fm: John Liebson 76011,1445
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

My question was based upon the assumption that you might *want* that many
partitions.  If you do not, then you probably do not need to remove the
motherboard chips.  I think it will depend a great deal on the way that
individuals use their machines.  In my case, since I hop back and forth from
program to program all day (I know, I know, no stability), I would probably
like to have as many partitions as possible.  This, in turn, will depend upon
what TSR's will end up high, such as Ready! and the Lightning dictionary--right
now, I have Kedit and the dict. on a Fastdisk, with Ready loaded as "ab", but I
will surely experiment when I get DESQView.  On the other hand, the speed
advantage of having only a minimal amount of memory on the motherboard might
lead you to do this even if you do not want many partitions.  At any rate, this
seems to be a major step forward in computing.


Fm: Joan Friedman 76556,3643
To: John Liebson 76011,1445 (X)

I'm still confused.  I don't foresee needing nine partitions, probably three or
four would do.  But I *do* need partitions of at least 300K each, more for
applications like Kedit which can use all the RAM available.  So, does the 256K
limit to RAM in other locations still apply?


Fm: Dave Hoagland 72365,42
To: Don Singleton 76154,26

       That's what I'm a little confused about.  In the installation procedure
for the RAMpage and RAMpage/AT nothing was said about the *necessity* of
filling out base memory with RAMpage memory (as opposed to Six Pak or
Advantage! memory).  Consequently, I have my machines set up that way...the PC
uses the Gold Card to fill out base memory, and the RAMpages are used for
extended and expanded memory only. The ATs are set up with base memory being
filled out with the Advantage!, and the excess Advantage! memory being used as
extended memory. The RAMpage/AT is being allocated 100% to expanded memory.
       I've had no problems with the systems...they seem to be perfectly happy
and content configured that way (and it permits me to make maximum use of my
available memory).  I haven't recieved a copy of DESQview 1.1 or 1.2 yet.
Quarterdeck didn't seem interested in having their software considered while I
was beta testing and evaluating the AST products.  They still don't seem
interested.  I'll just have to wait 'till the AST provided copy of 1.1 arrives.
       There may be some requirement (and that's what I'm wondering about) why
one must use RAMpage memory to fill out the base 640K when running DESQview.
If that's the case, and the multifunction/memory cards do become superflous,
some of our "customers" are going to be pretty p****d.  I've provided them with
as much information as I had available, and warned them that DESQview may
change the situation if they want to use it.  I suspect they're going to be a
little more p****d at Quarterdeck than me, though.  I explained why I couldn't
give them a solid answer. <grin>


Fm: Don Singleton 76154,26
To: Dave Hoagland 72365,42 (X)

From what I have read here, there is no necessity to allow RAMpage to fill out
the space below 640 just to get RAMpage to work, but in order for DESQview to
be able to swap stuff in and out fast enough to be acceptable, they cannot
afford to move the data, but need to be able to adjust some register values on
the board to cause different areas to respond to the below 640 addresses, which
means the more of that area they control, the larger partitions they can
support.


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

As an afterthought to your last message, after boot up with RAMpage and the
REMM.sys, free memory is about 545K which is probably where DesqView gets its
limitation.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340 (X)

Right on the last, but how can you have a 545K window (I know that's the spec)
when DOS takes up some 40K and Desqview takes up another 140K???? Machts
nichts, but just curious...


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

Because DesqView is operating in expanded memory, I think??


Fm: David Klatzco 74025,1005
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340

Norm, I would like to know just what DV says about the amount of memory the
base machine must have.  My turbo board has 640k on it. It runs all programs
totally in its oun addressing space, ignoring the 256k on the PC motherboard.
Does DV require that the RAMpage fill out everything above 256k?


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: David Klatzco 74025,1005

Yes and No. DesqView will load in expanded memory, will run one 545K program
and as many as eight 86K programs concurrently, if you have 640K of system
memory. If you want to run larger programs concurrently, in the other eight
windows, then the Rampage card must supply the memory from 256K. Hope this
answers your question.


Fm: Stu Miller 74015,1714
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340

       My home system is a True Blue PC AT.  I just re-read your previous
messages re: the motherboard memory, RAMpage memory and partition size
relations.  To quote from your Dec. 18 messages:
"In order to use the full power of DesqView with the RAMpage, your system
memory must be 128K or 256K. If you have 640K, you must be able to remove or
disable your memory to the lower limits. The penalty for keeping 640K is the
number of large programs that can be run concurrently (one)."
Now, today's msg. REALLY confused me... At present, I have 512k on the AT's
motherboard - my vendor is "lending" me the extra 256k in anticipation of
receipt of the RAMpage-AT. (I still haven't had a chance to arrange a
delivery/install time with my vendor)...  Is it *not* advisable to have as
little as possible (256k on the AT) on the motherboard and as much as possible
on the RAMpage???


Fm: David Klatzco 74025,1005
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop 76703,1010 (X)

My turbo board has 640k on it.  It uses a 16 bit data buss.  I don't know if I
can disable any of the memory if the RAMpage requires itself to fill out
everything above 256k in order to run DV. Can you shed any more light on this,
or know who can?  I know my turbo board will work with the LIM specs.  The
recommended board is the Tall Tree Jram.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: David Klatzco 74025,1005 (X)

RAMpage and DV will work fine
with a full 640K on the motherboard, but your partitions, by design, will be
smaller...  The less system RAM you have, i.e., the more that you allow DV to
fill out from RAMpage, the larger your partitions can be...


Fm: David Klatzco 74025,1005
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

Hmmmmmm... maybe my turbo board won't be compatible with DV and RAMpage this
will take some checking.   If I can reduce the amount of memory on the turbo
board and use the RAMpage board then I will be replacing 16 bit paths with 8
bit ones.....


Fm: doug carson 76044,2627
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340 (X)

      Is a DV user limited to 545K total "conventional" and "expanded" memory
when using one of the new Lotus products which utilize both types
simutaneously, or is the 545K the "conventional" to Lotus software with more
"expanded" available as well outside that 545K window of "conventional" memory?
       Another way to ask it, does a Lotus user actually have less room for
data under DV than they would using a vanilla 640K system and considerably less
than if they had 640K and LIM and were not running DV?


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: doug carson 76044,2627

I do not use Lotus, however, the DesqView manual says "Expanded memory ia
allocated on a request basis. When 1-2-3 (or some other program that supports
expanded memory) requests expanded memory, or when you allocate a RAM
disk......, that memory is removed from the total pool of available expanded
memory and is thus not available to run programs--until the program releases it
back to the pool."


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: David Klatzco 74025,1005

It doesn't specifically mention the board, however if the J-ram3 board does not
support the Enhanced-EMS (AST superset) you cannot run two or more large
programs concuurently.


Fm: David Klatzco 74025,1005
To: Norm Lew 70047,3340

The Jram-3 is standard LIM. I have explored using the RAMpage with my Univation
turbo board; it seems that the best I can get is from 576k on up on the
RAMpage.  And I am not even sure that I can do that.  All the system ram is on
the turbo board at 16 bit paths.  Looks like I need to find a different turbo
board if I want to run DV.


Fm: Dennis Wiener 76505,2040
To: Michael Rothman 74405,1313

What size programs can be run concurrently using DESQview with a standard LIM
board like the Jram-3?


Fm: David Klatzco 74025,1005
To: Michael Rothman 74405,1313

Are you using DV?  On a JRAM-3?  I am trying to figure out if DV will work on a
turbo board that disables main system memory and replaces it with its own 16
bit memory.  I understand from Norm that I won't have the full power of DV. Any
hints from your end?


Fm: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564
To: Dennis Wiener 76505,2040

Dennis, The JRAM 3, like all other LIM (i.e. EMS) boards, does NOT add any
extra space in which to run programs concurrently.  Please note the last word
in the previous sentence.  In most 640K systems running DESQview, there is
about 450K available for running programs.  You can concurrently run as many
programs as you can cram into that area.  In addition, even if the programs are
not processing in background, if they all fit in the 450K area, you can
INSTANTLY switch from one program to the next. Now, where the JRAM helps is
when you have more than 450K worth of programs, one or more must be "swapped
out". This swapping usually takes place on the hard disk but can be sent to a
RAM disk to make it much faster.  With the RAMpage card, not only are you able
to use the expanded memory in which to run programs, but there is also more
room in which to run programs (from 64-160K). This reduces the amount of
swapping dramatically.  This means that, under the right conditions, you can
have about 600K available for programs.  Under the best conditions you can have
nine, 600K programs all availble without swapping.  Yes, DESQview runs the
programs in expanded memory.


Fm: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564
To: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010 (X)

DESQview does indeed use the EEMS (note the extra "E") by AST.  You can indeed
run, concurrently, more than 640K of programs.  Please note that the SixPack
version DOES NOT support ANY expanded memory spec other than to use it as RAM
disk and run one (1) LIM program. You must have either the RAMpage version
(available only with the RAMpage) or DESQview 1.2 to make full use of expanded
memory.


Fm: Conrad Kageyama (Sysop) 76703,1010
To: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564

Is there a difference between the "RAMpage version" and DV 1.2????  And if so,
how do they differ???  Is one superior to the other????


Fm: Dan Cantley 73445,1075
To: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564

Since my TurboPC is already fully populated, I dip-switched out the 64k on the
SixPak.  Can I switch it back in and use it as a ramdisk with DesqView?  BTW,
whats a LIM program?


Fm: Paul Ferrara 70075,252
To: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564

Gary, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that DV *requires* that memory be
supplied by the RAMpage, since without that, one can only have 80K partitions,
or something like that?


Fm: Jim Butler 74766,1460
To: Steve Kalman 75136,360

Frank Markus was having trouble getting his RAMpage AT board working as long as
he had his Advantage board in.  I think he finally had to take the Advantage
out to get the Rampage up.  Shame, because who needs to waste expanded memory
for a ram disk that Advantage could provide (as long as you own it already, any
way).

Are you saying that the Advantage CAN be used with the Rampage? What settings?


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Jim Butler 74766,1460

I have a RAMpage-AT and an Advantage working in my Compaq 286.  The RAMpage is
supplying low memory from 256K to 640K and the balance of 1664K is expanded
memory.  The Advantage card gives me a 1536K ram disk.  DesqView 1.2 runs
without a hitch, giving me many large windows.


Fm: Norm Lew 70047,3340
To: Earle Robinson 70135,141 (X)

In order to obtain the greatest benefit with DesqView and the RAMpage-AT, you
must be able to disable system memory down to 256K.  The memory card that comes
with the 286 DeskPro has 128K of permanently installed chips and 384K of
socketed chips.  The card, however, has no switches or jumpers to indicate that
256K is installed.  The only jumpers on the board are for 64K or 256K chips.
Compaq has another memory card, which solves the problem.  According to Gary
Saxer at Quarterdeck, Compaq came up with the new card, so that Quarterdeck
could demo DesqView at the last Comdex.

My biggest problem now, is my 286 Portable.  It comes with 640K of memory, 128K
non-socketed and 512K in socketed 256K chips. as I understand it, the 256K
chips must be replaced with 64K chips.  This may not be as easy as it sounds.
It appears that the whole unit must be dismantled to get to the memory.  I'm
afraid to give it to my local dealer.


Fm: PETER MCKINNEY 74166,1301
To: Larry Orchier 73125,14

The real question is that DESQview will allow you concurrency if you have the
Intel AboveBoard or the AST Ramapage!.  With 256K of system memory, the
Rampage! will fill in the rest of the memory up to 640K, then continue above
that as extended memory for DV's use or as a ramdisk.  This configuration is
the optimal one as per the DV docs.  BTW, the docs say it will work with the
EGA board & drivers.


Fm: Larry Orchier 73125,14
To: Earle Robinson 70135,141

   I was concerned that it might not when I found out the hard way that MS
windows doesn't work with the EGA.  After the big (though obviously incomplete)
write up in the (now tarnished in my opinion) PC Tech Journal, I realize that I
would like to know ahead of time if the memory swapping will work on my JRam3
with DV.  Windows didn't swap programs, which is what I really wanted.
   Does DV allow concurrency and/or program swapping with the EGA? Does the
256K of EGA Memory prevent this?


Fm: doug carson 76044,2627
To: Earle Robinson 70135,141

While DV 1.2 runs on EMS boards, Gary Saxer says it isn't quite the same as
running it with EEMS memory.  Here's his EMAIL response to my question about
that:

The AST version with the RAMpage will only work with an AST board.  The 1.2
version from Quarterdeck will work with any LIM or EEMS board but please note:
ONLY BOARDS WHICH SUPPORT THE "ENHANCED" EXPANDED MEMORY SPEC WILL BE ABLE TO
RUN SEVERAL LARGE PROGRAMS CONCURRENTLY.  The only one I know so far is
RAMpage.  DESQview will use the expanded memory of other boards as RAM disk.


Fm: Steve Wallace 76010,2162
To: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564

Assuming Rampage AT and Atvantage--- is there an operational advantage to
Desqview 1.1 over 1.2?


Fm: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564
To: Steve Wallace 76010,2162 (X)

There is only one major difference between the two versions; the 1.10 version
of DESQview will only work if a RAMpage board and the REM software are loaded.
It WILL NOT work with any other vendor's exPAnded memory board.  The 1.20
version, available from Quarterdeck, will work will ALL expanded memory boards,
including the RAMpage.  Note that, to my knowledge, there are no other boards
which have the necessary hardware to actually store data AND programs in
expanded memory.


Fm: Paul Ferrara 70075,252
To: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564

The largest window size available (as shown with MS.COM) is 384K on a 256K XT.
Changing my switches to 128K improved this minimally so I went back to 256K.  I
have found that the first window that I load can be 416K but subseqent ones
must be smaller.  Can you explain this?


@*
Fm: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564
To: Paul Ferrara 70075,252

We had to make some hard decisions, and that was one.  DESQview resets several
key interrupts every time a program returns to "command" level.  We must do
this in order for some programs to work right.  So loading another COMMAND.COM
"raises" the command level by 1 and prevents us from resetting the interrupts.
In effect, DV thinks that COMMAND is the program running.  We decided that
since this workaround exists we would use this method rather than have some
programs not work at all.  Yes I can explain window sizes.  Let's start with
the second Q first.  DV uses all the memory from the end of the program to the
top of memory in which to run programs.  However, it con only "page" (have
RAMpage move it quickly away that is) the area where RAMpage is supplying the
physical memory.  Thus the very first program you run can be the biggest
because it includes "motherboard" memory and RAMpage memory.  The others can
only be in RAMpage memory as long as you don't want to swap.  Remember that you
can have 9 windows at max size but they will swap each other to disk.  Now you
should see that the RAMpage area cannot include the 1 page (16K max) in which
the beginning of the program area starts because part of DV code is there too
and can never be swapped.  Try setting your switches to 64K and watch what
happens.  Also be sure to run XDV.


Fm: Earle Robinson 70135,141
To: Gary Saxer (Quarterdeck) 73206,564

If I understand things correctly, this means one can run 3 programs using a
single rampageAT where the first 384k is used to fill out the lower 640,
leaving about 1.6 meg, where 0.5 meg is for the first program, and 0.4k for
each of the other 2, leaving a very tiny amount, after taking into account the
dv overhead of about 16k per partition, and assuming the 2nd two windows are
using the maximum amount of rampage memory available.  Is this correct?  If so,
then, it would seem that could just about have all 9 programs available after
having installed a 2nd rampageAT board.  Is this correct, too?


Fm: Paul Ferrara 70075,252
To: Steve Kalman 75136,360

What do your numbers from Memory Status look like?  Mine are:

                      Total     Total       Largest
                      Memory    Available   Available
System Memory         12218       3738        2196
Conventional Memory    506K        67K         67K
Expanded Memory       1664K       352K        352K

That's with 6 windows open, so the last one is only one that means much. I'm
especially curious about the "largest available."  That's as big as mine gets.
Are yours the same?